1921-S Vam 1B4C (new stage) Thorn or Thornhead (new variety)

General discussion board about VAMs, but no buy/sell offers
Post Reply
78-sLongnock
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:07 pm

1921-S Vam 1B4C (new stage) Thorn or Thornhead (new variety)

Post by 78-sLongnock » Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:11 pm

There is an additional Stage in the 1921-S Thorn Head that was added to the series. A few years ago, I was deep into the Thorn Head Die study, & thought that there was at least one more possible in the series. The discovery of the 1B6A convinced me that there has to be additional polishing events that had to of occurred back in 1921 San Francisco mint. Well, it wasn’t a polishing event that I stumbled into. The new Vam 1B4C OB is unchanged from the 1B4B. But, the Vam 1B4C also used the Rev Of D2a That added thin die gouge between E and D below wreath bow. The gouge that extends from the bottom of the feather of the left wing is present. The Rev had to have been worked at the very end of the Vam 1B4B run. This stage was continued to be used on the 1B5, 1B6 and 1B7.
Last edited by 78-sLongnock on Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:31 pm, edited 6 times in total.

Mhomei
Posts: 701
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 7:23 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: 1921-S Vam 1B4C (new stage) Thorn or Thornhead (new variety)

Post by Mhomei » Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:35 pm

Congrats
Good work as always

User avatar
lewisr2
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:42 pm
Location: St Louis, Mo

Re: 1921-S Vam 1B4C (new stage) Thorn or Thornhead (new variety)

Post by lewisr2 » Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:21 pm

Excellent Vamming.
Time consuming investigation proves fruitful again.

vamsterdam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:48 am

Re: 1921-S Vam 1B4C (new stage) Thorn or Thornhead (new variety)

Post by vamsterdam » Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:57 pm

I heard about this a year or two ago, but never saw any confirmation til now. Congratulations.

User avatar
messydesk
Site Admin
Posts: 3641
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 1:57 am

Re: 1921-S Vam 1B4C (new stage) Thorn or Thornhead (new variety)

Post by messydesk » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:46 pm

Leroy actually mentioned it in either the 1B4b or 1B5 listing before this was listed. He had the opportunity to add it at one time, but declined, presumably since it was only a change in the reverse.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

lured_in_again
Posts: 568
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: 1921-S Vam 1B4C (new stage) Thorn or Thornhead (new variety)

Post by lured_in_again » Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:11 pm

Am I confused, or is this saying the VAM 1B4B has 2 different reverse dies - with and without the gouges (also the gouge extending from the bottom of left wing)

User avatar
messydesk
Site Admin
Posts: 3641
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 1:57 am

Re: 1921-S Vam 1B4C (new stage) Thorn or Thornhead (new variety)

Post by messydesk » Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:56 pm

The text in previous supplements for VAM 1B4b said, "Added thin die gouge between E and D below wreath bow on later 1B4b die states." This is what was made VAM 1B4c in the interest of tracking the die changes that collectors of this high profile series are interested in.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

lured_in_again
Posts: 568
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: 1921-S Vam 1B4C (new stage) Thorn or Thornhead (new variety)

Post by lured_in_again » Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:39 am

I guess this is what threw me off / from initial posting above..... " The new Vam 1B4C OB is unchanged from the 1B4B. But, the Vam 1B4C is the first use of the Rev Of D2a" Do earlier coins in the sequence have a different reverse die?

User avatar
messydesk
Site Admin
Posts: 3641
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 1:57 am

Re: 1921-S Vam 1B4C (new stage) Thorn or Thornhead (new variety)

Post by messydesk » Thu Dec 01, 2022 5:39 am

The reverse die was changed between VAM 1B4c and 1B5 as far as I know, but they're both classified as D2a reverses.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

User avatar
vampicker
Posts: 2004
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:48 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: 1921-S Vam 1B4C (new stage) Thorn or Thornhead (new variety)

Post by vampicker » Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:20 pm

To be clear, we're talking about two stages of the same reverse die, not two separate dies. The scribble scratches match across all stages. I checked this against an example of VAM 1B5 in hand and the earlier stage plates.
often the crusher of hopes and dreams

78-sLongnock
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:07 pm

Re: 1921-S Vam 1B4C (new stage) Thorn or Thornhead (new variety)

Post by 78-sLongnock » Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:33 am

Thanks all for the additional info.
LeRoy saw it it it’s Raw state.
Ill continue to pursue this series till the final outcome.

Post Reply