1879-O double 18_9 & right stars, rev hub doubling w/ normal O MM

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keilg1
Posts: 481
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

1879-O double 18_9 & right stars, rev hub doubling w/ normal O MM

Post by keilg1 » Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:29 pm

As some of you may have been following the other post http://www.vamworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7010, the placement of the mint mark (MM) is one subjective diagnostic to help ID a variety. And, as mentioned, some of the descriptions don’t really match up with the pictures making it a bit more difficult to type a series that is straightforward compared to other years and mints. But it's a start.

The coin I have in hand is an interesting addition to the story. First, the hunt is easily cut down by the wonderful hub doubling that was first described in the VAM-30 listing (and the 1878-P C3b varieties).
79-O 5425 FCO GRedf.jpg
79-O 5425 FCO GRedf.jpg (183.61 KiB) Viewed 340 times
79-O 5425 FCR GRedf.jpg
79-O 5425 FCR GRedf.jpg (178.14 KiB) Viewed 340 times
79-O 5425 hub doubed rev UNITED GRedf.jpg
79-O 5425 hub doubed rev UNITED GRedf.jpg (165.13 KiB) Viewed 340 times
I believed this might be a VAM-33 based on the description of the obverse: “Slightly doubled top and back edge of Phrygian cap” and “all right stars towards rim” because these are definitely seen: showing right stars 1-4 (R1-R4), but I don’t see the doubling of the “URIBUS UNUM letters on top towards rim” (not shown but can if you’d like to see them).
79-O 5425 double back of cap GRedf.jpg
79-O 5425 double back of cap GRedf.jpg (56.4 KiB) Viewed 340 times
79-O 5425 right stars 1-4 GRedf.jpg
79-O 5425 right stars 1-4 GRedf.jpg (168.83 KiB) Viewed 340 times

The 33, as well as the 32/34, 35 and 36 (and 39A but supposedly not the 39? and possibly the 49 shown in a picture but it isn’t listed) with the reverse hub doubling (and others like the 44/44A without the hub doubling) have doubling of the top and back of the cap, as does this coin, but this coin shows what I believe is a clear doubling of the 18_9 (but not the 7). I'll show the digits in the second half of this post as I've run into the limit of 5...

There are no reverse hub doubled varieties with a doubled 18_9. Although the 43 supposedly has the full date digits doubled, the coin in question doesn’t match the 43’s digit doubling description.

The 33 description also states the reverse has a “O mint mark set slightly high with slight tilt to right” shared with the 30 but we’ve already worked through that not quite being the case. This coin appears to have a normal/slightly high with no tilt mark.

There is a bit of a clash seen on the obv and rev but the placement doesn’t match any of the described potential coins (39A and 42A, and the elusive and unproven 34A). I’m still trying to see if there is any letter transfer, but I don’t think so.

Thus, between the doubled 18_9 (which supposedly would be unique although I can’t rule out the 7 also being doubled), the hub doubled reverse and the MM placement all don’t match up fully to what is described. I’m not sure at all this is a new variety because the series is a bloody mess, but it is an interesting one (at least to me).

Thanks for any thoughts and insight you'd have.

Gary
Last edited by keilg1 on Wed Nov 09, 2022 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

keilg1
Posts: 481
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: 1879-O double 18_9, rev hub doubling w/ normal O MM

Post by keilg1 » Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:31 pm

Part 2 showing the date digits. I see the one doubled on the bottom of the top vertical bar, and the 8 and 9 on the upper outer right sides, but nothing to speak of on the 7:
79-O 5425 1 GRedf.jpg
79-O 5425 1 GRedf.jpg (56.37 KiB) Viewed 338 times
79-O 5425 8(7) GRedf.jpg
79-O 5425 8(7) GRedf.jpg (57.33 KiB) Viewed 338 times
79-O 5425 9 GRedf.jpg
79-O 5425 9 GRedf.jpg (61.08 KiB) Viewed 338 times

keilg1
Posts: 481
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: 1879-O double 18_9 & right stars, rev hub doubling w/ normal O MM

Post by keilg1 » Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:34 am

Sorry to bump this to the top by asking if anyone would have thougths on this coin?

Thanks in advance,

Vam-mysterio
Posts: 775
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: 1879-O double 18_9 & right stars, rev hub doubling w/ normal O MM

Post by Vam-mysterio » Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:17 pm

Post pictures of:
Wing-neck gap
Rev bow
Obv hair claw
For good vammin skills and knowledge start doing your own date study

keilg1
Posts: 481
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: 1879-O double 18_9 & right stars, rev hub doubling w/ normal O MM

Post by keilg1 » Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:43 pm

Thanks, @Vam-mysterio. Hope these help. A few different light angles but not showing much detail in any of the areas asked. Also looked to see if there was any line/scratching in the ribbon on the obverse - similar: nothing I could see.
1879 O (5425)pic14.jpg
1879 O (5425)pic14.jpg (128.04 KiB) Viewed 271 times
1879 O (5425)pic15.jpg
1879 O (5425)pic15.jpg (76.26 KiB) Viewed 271 times

keilg1
Posts: 481
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: 1879-O double 18_9 & right stars, rev hub doubling w/ normal O MM

Post by keilg1 » Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:51 am

Sorry to bump this to the top again but the myster still remains. I know, a minor one to many of you but I'm a bit OCD when it comes to closing loops...

#proudtobeneurodiverse (in my own way)

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