1883 CC Help

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ShamShield
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:53 am

1883 CC Help

Post by ShamShield » Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:23 pm

I picked up this 1883 CC GSA but I don't see a vam with a spiked 3. There is no dash under the 8 and CC may be doubled i thoyght VAM 8 but it doesnt have a spiked 3....any ideas?
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ShamShield
Posts: 128
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Re: 1883 CC Help

Post by ShamShield » Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:58 pm

More pictures...ear and hair near the ear look really polished.
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ShamShield
Posts: 128
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Re: 1883 CC Help

Post by ShamShield » Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:01 pm

More pictures
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ShamShield
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Re: 1883 CC Help

Post by ShamShield » Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:05 pm

Die cracks, R in PLURIBUS and N in UNUM...there are die cracks everywhere.
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ShamShield
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Re: 1883 CC Help

Post by ShamShield » Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:08 pm

Whole coin
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MarkyB
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Location: Nebraska

Re: 1883 CC Help

Post by MarkyB » Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:24 pm

I see a 5B.

ShamShield
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Re: 1883 CC Help

Post by ShamShield » Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:27 pm

I see some 5B in it but would it be a new progression? With the tip near right wing shoulder, spiked 3 and some of the clashing doesnt line up. The berries and leaves are on the olive branch in the right talon.

MarkyB
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Location: Nebraska

Re: 1883 CC Help

Post by MarkyB » Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:09 pm

I pulled my self-attributed 83CC, Vam 5B, also in a GSA holder. I have the wing spike. I'm not sure what you mean by "the berries and leaves are on the olive branch...." but I can tell you the berry matches exactly. I've added a few of my own pictures if you want to check for a match. Notice my bit of anomally in the lower loop of the 3. Larger but similar in shape to yours but in a different place...like there was confetti in the air when minted. IMO neither are significant enough to warrant a new VAM. Curious if you have the same wing/neck gap and ribbon lines and scratches under her jaw.
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ShamShield
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Re: 1883 CC Help

Post by ShamShield » Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:23 pm

I like the confetti idea lol. I don't have the chin lines but I found a dot next to the back of the eagles head, base of right feathers and I can't tell if that's a dot under her chin or just a dark area but I think it's just a dark area. Also slight clash by lips.
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weth
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Re: 1883 CC Help

Post by weth » Fri Oct 07, 2022 4:10 am

ShamShield wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:27 pm
I see some 5B in it but would it be a new progression?

1883-CC VAM 5 is a very deep rabbit hole. There were multiple minor clash and minor polishing events in the die progression, but many of these stages weren't "significant". I have examples of VAM 5 in over a dozen distinguishable die states; in no way am I suggesting that there should be further subdivision of the die variety nomenclature. At one point I was trying to write up a die stage progression history, but it just kept being to dizzying and frustrating to complete.

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messydesk
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Re: 1883 CC Help

Post by messydesk » Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:47 am

weth wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 4:10 am
ShamShield wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:27 pm
I see some 5B in it but would it be a new progression?
1883-CC VAM 5 is a very deep rabbit hole. There were multiple minor clash and minor polishing events in the die progression, but many of these stages weren't "significant". I have examples of VAM 5 in over a dozen distinguishable die states; in no way am I suggesting that there should be further subdivision of the die variety nomenclature. At one point I was trying to write up a die stage progression history, but it just kept being to dizzying and frustrating to complete.
There is, indeed a lot of minor stuff for this die pair. The best way to describe the "in between" stages are simply to call them later die stages of the most recent VAM number. There is currently no intention to further subdivide VAM 5 into further subvarieties. A good write-up of the complete chronicles of that die pair would be very welcome for everyone looking at 83-CC VAM 5, but will most likely not result in more subvarieties being added. The guidelines for new varieties also state that I'd need to see all the relevant coins -- existing and proposed new varieties -- before I'd consider adding subvarieties.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

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raynat3
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Re: 1883 CC Help

Post by raynat3 » Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:55 am

If the chip, broken punch, ( not doubling) in 3 does not match a listed VAM it is a different obverse Die. The only difference I have seen is due to wear or strike on the 3 when the punch is just starting to break. The two pictures of the 3 in the post of the possible VAM and the coin in question are not the same obverse.

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vampicker
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Re: 1883 CC Help

Post by vampicker » Fri Oct 07, 2022 11:34 am

The coin in question is a VAM 5B, nothing more, nothing less. And yes, there are multiple minor stages in this section of the progression. I have a rough outline of a die study for this date and 82 & 84 CC. I'll eventually publish, but there's not really any new information that's not already posted here on VAM World.
often the crusher of hopes and dreams

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