When strike doubling is a good thing

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messydesk
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When strike doubling is a good thing

Post by messydesk » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:56 pm

It's no secret that Morgan errors (beyond filled dies and planchet flaws) are downright rare. This just sold for $2666.40. Now imagine that the second strike was 50% off-center rather than just a 2° rotation like the one pictured in the VAM book.
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collectinsince65
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Re: When strike doubling is a good thing

Post by collectinsince65 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:41 pm

Very Cool!!
Have never seen one like that before.
Gives me something else to look for.
Mike

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TheYokel
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Re: When strike doubling is a good thing

Post by TheYokel » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:56 pm

It's always the 21's... :lol:
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messydesk
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Re: When strike doubling is a good thing

Post by messydesk » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:45 pm

TheYokel wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:56 pm
It's always the 21's... :lol:
For good reason. With a mintage multiples of any other year, and a sudden mandate to start creating unprecedented quantites of silver dollars after not making them for 17 years, more errors will slip by than did for other years. Minor rim clips typically show up on 1921 Morgans, and can be had for less than $100 if the coin is still round (more if the clip disrupts the roundness). My broadstruck Morgan is a 21-S.

A couple other errors sold in this auction. Some partial collars got decent money, and a few rotated dies with over 45° rotation got nice premiums, too.
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Re: When strike doubling is a good thing

Post by TheYokel » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:58 pm

messydesk wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:45 pm
TheYokel wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:56 pm
It's always the 21's... :lol:
For good reason. With a mintage multiples of any other year, and a sudden mandate to start creating unprecedented quantites of silver dollars after not making them for 17 years, more errors will slip by than did for other years. Minor rim clips typically show up on 1921 Morgans, and can be had for less than $100 if the coin is still round (more if the clip disrupts the roundness). My broadstruck Morgan is a 21-S.

A couple other errors sold in this auction. Some partial collars got decent money, and a few rotated dies with over 45° rotation got nice premiums, too.
I blame unhappy workers during the first year of prohibition :lol:

Lots of cool cracks in the 21's also. Just wish there were more sweet clashes...
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vamsterdam
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Re: When strike doubling is a good thing

Post by vamsterdam » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:39 pm

i dislike it when anyone uses "strike doubling" to describe a double struck coin. strike doubling is synonymous with ejection doubling, mechanical doubling, shelf doubling, and machine doubling(damage).

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Re: When strike doubling is a good thing

Post by messydesk » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:50 pm

vamsterdam wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:39 pm
i dislike it when anyone uses "strike doubling" to describe a double struck coin. strike doubling is synonymous with ejection doubling, mechanical doubling, shelf doubling, and machine doubling(damage).
Agreed, but I made you look. And since the terms "strike doubling" and "strike doubled" are dangerously close to "double struck", I don't like the terms at all, even though I know I've used them in other contexts. I imagine "strike doubling" is probably one of the more popular terms to describe machine doubling, which I think I like best.
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Re: When strike doubling is a good thing

Post by bhinkle » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:00 pm

This is very new and interesting to me John.
How or what did you see, that told you, it was a double struck collar?
I looked at it and saw nothing unusual on the obv, but I saw a wider rim, along the bottom, of the rev.
Is that how you attribute this rare double struck collar?
Thanks, Bert
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1921 DOUBLE STRUCK IN COLLAR REV 1.jpg
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Re: When strike doubling is a good thing

Post by vamsterdam » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:23 pm

I agree, strike doubling is too close to double struck. I dislike that nefarious and confusing term. Machine doubling is fine with me(or MDD). a double struck in the collar is a great thing and should never even by inference, be confused with machine doubling. How do you get people to quit using that erroneous and dubious terminology?

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Re: When strike doubling is a good thing

Post by messydesk » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:01 pm

bhinkle wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:00 pm
This is very new and interesting to me John.
How or what did you see, that told you, it was a double struck collar?
I looked at it and saw nothing unusual on the obv, but I saw a wider rim, along the bottom, of the rev.
Is that how you attribute this rare double struck collar?
Thanks, Bert
Double struck in collar. Means that the coin was still constrained by the collar when it was struck a second time. Double struck out of collar, by contrast, means that the coin was not in the collar when struck a second time. It typically has the shape of an off-center coin. See page 136 of the VAM book.
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Re: When strike doubling is a good thing

Post by bhinkle » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:13 am

Thank you John,
I was looking through my 1921 Morgans and saw this 1921 D NGCMS64, that I can see a wider edge or rim, at the top of the obv, than along the bottom edge or rim and on the top outer edge, I see a line running down the middle, of the rim and the outer edge, of that line running down the middle, is slightly lower, than the inner edge, along the coin.
Is that what you look for, on strike doubling, like the pictures of the 1921, that you posted?
I have an older large hard back copy of Vams around here some where, but I rely on this site now, for vam information and when I find it, I will look on page 136.
Thanks, Bert
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messydesk
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Re: When strike doubling is a good thing

Post by messydesk » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:39 am

That looks like a slightly misaligned die. Common, and no big deal. Unrelated to machine doubling or a double strike.
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bhinkle
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Re: When strike doubling is a good thing

Post by bhinkle » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:43 am

Okay thank you John,
Do you know if there is a link, showing the information and what it looks like, on the strike doubling, that is on page 136, because I have no idea, where my vam book is, I can't find it anywhere.
Thanks, Bert

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Re: When strike doubling is a good thing

Post by Longstrider » Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:27 pm

Very interesting thread. I learned a lot from this one. That coin went for crazy money. Thanks..🐍

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